What is the point of climbing if it’s not to better ourselves in some way? We do it to push the limits of what we think is bodily possible, or to share your life with someone through a rope, or simply to get away from the bullshit of the everyday grind and spend meditative time in nature. Bouldering is a humbling practice- one can only take themselves so seriously when faced with so much failure before success.

How is it that someone who is defending the ethics of bouldering can effectively make a case when they use language like “the stunted, buffant retard”. And no, it’s not ok to excuse this kind of behavior by saying things like “haters gonna hate” or “the climbing scene just isn’t what it used to be- there’s a lot more assholes out there now.” At that point, we’ve lost sight of the most important ethical issue in climbing altogether…

I could go on, but I think Brendan Leonard puts this all into perspective more elegantly, so here’s a link.

http://semi-rad.com/2013/02/are-you-making-the-world-awesome-or-angrier/

As far as the ethics. You’re using a blow torch on a route… That’s RIDICULOUS. I don’t see much more conversation necessary.

Thank you for all that you’ve done, and please don’t let the angry internet masses pull you down to their levels.

keep climbin!

Any comments that follow are, shall we say, optional for the reader.
Second: BITD we used torches to dry rock… in Kingston Quarry. This was the late 80s/early 90s. As some of you may know, Kingston was entirely drilled/chipped [aside from one or two rare routes]. Hence none of us had any compunction about blowtorching the smooth, water filled pockets- they were smooth from drills which had sculpted them. All the routes followed [still follow] a wave of muddy limestone which, though relatively solid [I say relatively, because a large wall with only a couple of lines on it- universally regarded by all of us as 'spooky'- ENTIRELY collapsed some years back] was the byproduct of quarrying.
It’s interesting to wonder in retrospect what the ‘local ethics’ were at Kingston. Many Gunks climbers used it as training for their trips to Buoux. All the routes are bolted. Nothing’s longer than 60 feet. Nothing’s easier than 12a. And, again- everything is manufactured. I personally drilled/chiseled/climbed a short bouldery 13c there, and climbed many of the other routes. This practice of course diverged significantly from the Gunks ethic, which has been VERY careful about bolting for decades. But Kingston’s only 20 miles away and was our playground for a couple of years. It’s hard to define ‘local’ here.
I’m not making a conclusion, just adding some meditation to the thread. For folks interested in diving in deeper to this, how about climbing in east Germany, Czech, and across bohemia, in the 50s/60s/70s? One bolt per PITCH, and yes, they were usually short pitches, but they were done ground up, often barefoot, and no other metal protection allowed because the stone was too soft to take pins or nuts w/o scarring immediately. Do some research on Bernd Arnold & co. to learn more about this… interesting blend of ethics. Knotted slings as passive pro: OK. One bolt at belay per pitch: OK. Anything else: NO. This was an influence as I understand it on Bachar’s ethic on the Bachar/Yerian.

Third, and finally: there’s a great old story about blowtorches and Todd Skinner. [RIP- he was a terrific guy, I only met him once and my memory is of a true, honest soul who loved climbing]. This story revolves around Todd’s work on City Park, at Index. Here’s something I found googling it a moment ago. http://www.climbingwashington.com/features/walkinthepark2.htm

Yes- this last is partly for comic relief, but also to point out how absurd, pointless, and beautiful the whole noble exercise we call climbing is. CHEERS!

Of course if you heat a rock for long enough its going to damage it, But that’s why it’s “unethical” right? Because we can’t trust all the stupid climbers to do it right, so we just say its wrong. Meanwhile all the legit and experienced climbers are using them ALL THE TIME. Maybe its time we educate climbers about potentially damaging practices instead of condemning people who actually know what they are doing. Its just like bolting, if you don’t know what you’re doing you’re going to fuck it up – that doesn’t mean that no body should be bolting. There are two types of climbers in this world; developers and repeaters, leaders and followers, wolfs and sheep. If you’re not using a blow torch, you’re probably the later.

Exactly!!! Is a choice but your anger will not let you read clearly. We talked about different countries but whatever.

By the way… 8a.nu is the Bible or great testament of the climbers?

Keep Calm & Climb on

And to whoever said that there are no Swedes complaining, check the 8a.nu thread, there are multiple nationalities saying blow torching is wrong including Swedes.